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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 16:45 link quote reply It's killing me.....

Can we ban using 'The Daily Mail' as a source because it's making us all look like idiots?

There are other sources which are banned on here yet we are still allowed to post stuff from here as if it's gospel?

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 16:48 link quote reply a reply to: and14263Hmm. It's still a national newspaper, so it counts as MSM. ATS has not got around to selectively banning such sources yet.

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 16:48 link quote reply a reply to: and14263

With the DM aggressive stance against immigration and refugees they will continue to be a popular "source" for many ATS'ers.

I dislike the DM too but it ain't going anywhere.

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Can't you just post it then disprove it from another source thereby illustratingthe fictional nature of certain DM stories?

I suspect some stories are covered first in the DM so they'll be automatically rejected later. But then I think all mainstream media is a load of spook drivel.Making up the news is a basic job in the intelligence world.edit on 8 2 2016 by Kester because: (no reason given)

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 16:52 link quote reply The DM is a comic, a joke ofa newspaper

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 17:05 link quote reply

originally posted by: Swillsa reply to: and14263

With the DM aggressive stance against immigration and refugees they will continue to be a popular "source" for many ATS'ers.

I dislike the DM too but it ain't going anywhere.

Yeah, must forbid any MSM that is against the economic migrants. Even though a lot of people agree and need their side heard too. Just as much as all those thatwould love it if just propaganda for immigration would be published.

The DM is a terrible newspaper but not for their opinion. More for bad reportingand illiterate staff.Also, just like the German 'Bild-Zeitung', not all reports are always false.

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What I do is read, then counter check if I can find another source. If there isnone, then I have enough braincells to dismiss the article.

Whilst we are here, I'd also like to rant about those that never take any alternative sources seriously. As soon as it isn't one of the 'big, known and officially accepted' sources, it's always wrong. When in fact those are the sources we will hear things from that would otherwise never make it to our attention.

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originally posted by: DISRAELIa reply to: and14263Hmm. It's still a national newspaper, so it counts as MSM. ATS has not got around to selectively banning such sources yet.

Well said..

Most of the MSM spouts bs anyway.. sometimes you need to sort through the chaff

to find the wheat..

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 17:40 link quote reply They've always been a profoundly nasty little arse rag of a paper. I'd still rather see it used as a sourcethan the frigging express. What's next, take a break and hello?

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originally posted by: and14263It's killing me.....



With all the issues we're facing in this world, this -- using a 120-year-old paper as a source -- is "killing" you? Really??? Wow. Okay.

and14263????????

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 17:57 link quote reply a reply to: Hecate666

I'm against immigration AND terrible news sources.

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originally posted by: Boadicea

With all the issues we're facing in this world, this -- using a 120-year-old paper as a source -- is "killing" you? Really??? Wow. Okay.

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"Wow", sorry for the use of semantics. Move on then.

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originally posted by: and14263It's killing me.....



It is interesting that you choose to bring this up today, did you see this article from the independant by any chance?

Indepandant article.

British people think their media is the most biased and right-wing in Europe - and they're probably rightJust two individuals - Rupert Murdoch and Lord Rothermere - controlled a stagger

ing 52.2 per cent of online and print national news publications in the UK in 2013

I was going to make a thread about it but then realiseds I would have to deal with all of the replies and decided against it.

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While we're at it, let's just ban all sources that don't fit in with your pointof view. Maybe you should start a survey to see how many ATS members approve ofyour ban list.

I don't like the Daily Mail either but at least they are reporting issues that are on a lot of peoples minds. Like it or not, you can't expect the whole planetto be as optimistic as you are.

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originally posted by: OpenEars123The DM is a comic, a joke of a newspaper

Actually I find its sports reporting better than its competitors, over and abovethat, it's as biased to its readership as any other publication - if you thinkany other is totally unbiased then I would suggest you just share the bias of the one you select.

The one that really makes me laugh is the Independent which screams its prejudice very loudly yet proclaims itself as somehow superior.

Just like anything you read/hear anywhere, MSM, blogs, ATS, down the pub, there

may be a germ of truth with an editorial spun by the teller to make it prove (sell?) their point - it's human nature and to be honest some posters on ATS are much more extreme in how they push their opinion as fact.

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originally posted by: Kestera reply to: and14263

But then I think all mainstream media is a load of spook drivel. Making up the news is a basic job in the intelligence world.

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Outstanding, nothing to add except

The "News" is short for New Story (whats the newest info, whats the scoop, the before everyone else knows it scandal or dirt) meaning the newest tall tale presented to the most people, most of the time.

The News is at once a disclaimer (its only a story after all) and at the same time believed by many to be the truth.

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 18:40 link quote reply Wouldn't posting anything from DM be like double posting a topic anyways here. Since the like pulling some of their stories from this site.

I don't really have any trouble people using DM as a source. But like any good investigation there should be more then one. DM is sometimes nice for U.S. reports cause they're just a little less likely to drop an article from their site then say CNN, FOX or any of the other major papers in the U.S.

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 18:50 link quote reply a reply to: nonspecific

Nice to see you on the boards.

No, it's because I'm tired of people not questioning sources. To be fair, I shouldn't have even logged on, I'm back to that same negative frustrating mood thatcoming here gets me in.

It's like a really rubbish drug.

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 18:59 link quote reply It's not so much the postingof articles I have a problem with. It's that lately you already know who it isposting the topic just from looking at the sensationalist title and the discussion is invariably replete with the unquestioning vapidity of people believing itto be absolute fact. No attempts to disseminate or interpret the information. Nofact checking or verifying quoted sources. Not even looking at the historial context and bias of the outlet providing the information, just the desperate validation of preconceived notions of the world.

Deny ignorance should be changed to Just Believe.

It happens with the leftist papers too, although to a much lesser degree lately.I'm sure when the political tide turns it'll go the other way.

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 19:23 link quote reply a reply to: and14263The daily mail, is low, but I've seen the express being used too. That really is

shaping the barrel, the vitriol of some of the posts is also taking on the appearance of the daily mail comments section. Sometimes I forget where I am. I justimagine a lot of guys frothing at the mouth shaking their fists at the computerscreen, veins pulsing in their necks

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originally posted by: woodwardjnra reply to: and14263The daily mail, is low, but I've seen the express being used too. That really is

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shaping the barrel, the vitriol of some of the posts is also taking on the appearance of the daily mail comments section. Sometimes I forget where I am. I justimagine a lot of guys frothing at the mouth shaking their fists at the computerscreen, veins pulsing in their necks

Oh, I don't know, there are many on here from the UK that fairly much fit the pattern for Guardian readers whether or not they are actually readers.

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a reply to: woodwardjnr I just have a problem with 2 right wing tax dodgers having so much influence over the uk. Murdoch and the sun and the daily mail are rig

ht wing propaganda for a right wing government intent on making other people payfor the tax dodgers avoidance.

All very well these two owners have their massive influence while not contributing like everyone else to the sysrem

edit on 8-2-2016 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)

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riably ends in death.\" Wide-EyesRollingMember

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 22:20 link quote reply a reply to: woodwardjnr

To be fair, this is the first government that has addressed tax avoidance as faras I know. I know they are all at it but at least it's finally being talked about.

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 22:37 link quote reply Daily Mail as a source... LOL

Reminds me of what John McDonnell said recently.

John McDonnell: "I got a phone call saying: 'I'm a journalist from the Sun.' I said look you can be one or the other, but you can't be both"

Well, seems as though isil is up to no good once more. I am sure they have a pretty good amount of soldiers in Russia. Will this be the next large scale target?

The article goes on to say "they were going to carry out "high-profile attacks"using improvised explosives on Moscow, St. Petersburg and in the area around Ekaterinburg".....

Russian security services have arrested seven people accused of plotting terrorattacks on behalf of the Islamic State in major Russian cities, the countrys FSBintelligence agency said today.

The arrests were made in the city of Ekaterinburg, located in the Urals region on the edge of Siberia, the Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation said in a written statement.

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L I N K

Read my Lips

ReaDlEAder anxiouswens

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 16:21 link quote reply One was arrested in Englandover the weekend and two in Spain! Looks like intelligence are working hard to keep us all safe but sooner or later something will happen, I guess its just where! a reply to: ReadLeader

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 16:28 link quote reply a reply to: anxiouswens

Yes, sadly, they seem to be masters of travel!!! They sure can get the frig outta town, and fast!!! Got to be the fabricated credentials.

Thanks for posting

Read my Lips

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 16:54 link quote reply a reply to: ReadLeader

It seems like everyone is being threatened with terrorism these days, even Russia. It's a shame countries can't put their petty differences aside and join forces to root this evil scourge off the face of the earth.

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For those unaware, the Problem of Evil can be broadly defined as follows: sincebad things such as pain, misery and suffering take place in our world, how can people believe in an all-powerful, all-knowledgeable and all-loving God? To elaborate: if God is all knowing, could he not foresee all bad things from taking place? If God is all powerful, could he not stop these bad things from happening? Finally, if he is neither willing nor powerful enough to prevent pain, misery and

suffering, why do we call him God? These arguments are not easily refuted and while I identify more as an agnostic than as an atheist or theist, I do still believe I have a theory that might explain the Problem of Evil whilst allowing forthe existence of God.

Imagine for a moment that God does exist and that he is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. These attributes would render any action pointless as everythingthat can be predicted and created would be before they even come into existence. Basically, God would just exist and that would be everything. Rather boring hey? But what if there was a way where not everything could be predicted, and the

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act of creation could be productive and inspiring?

In order to achieve such a result, God would have to create a reality where hiscapabilities were somewhat suppressed. In other words, he would have to sacrifice a portion of his power so that he would be unable to predict things. Maybe that is what has happened on our planet. Quite simply, in this physical existence,God cannot interfere with anything he has created. When it comes to explaining evil in our current existence, it seems God really did create a rock that was sobig he was unable to lift it!

To use an analogy: a programmer that has released software without including a "back-door" for that software.

Yes, it was seemingly irresponsible, but it means little in the grand scheme ofthings if there is an afterlife where pain, suffering and misery do not exist.

Would you entertain such a theory?

This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want tobelieve. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deepthe rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more. Morpheus. Krazysh0tSkeptical

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 16:23 link quote reply a reply to: Dark Ghost

I'm pretty sure that moral relativism is true and there is no such thing as goodand evil.

I dont know what to put here at the moment. Dark GhostMetaphysicalMember

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 16:26 link quote reply a reply to: Krazysh0t

The purpose of this thread is not to debate whether Good or Evil actually exist.It is more to explore the notion that the existence of a deity is possible eventhough bad things happen.

This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blu

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e pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want tobelieve. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deepthe rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more. Morpheus. kumiho

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You are right, and he doesn't understand but wants to verify his theory.. Rightfrom wrong, evil from good is relative to whom you are asking

Krazysh0tSkepticalmember



But that's the thing. Nothing I said disproves a god could exist. A deity couldwell exist; it just doesn't have much concern for things like good and evil sinc

e it knows the actions a human performs while on earth regardless of their scopeare rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things.


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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 16:34 link quote reply a reply to: kumiho

Can you explain, specifically, what you feel it is that I don't understand?

I have reread the opening post and cannot see anywhere where I insinuate that moral relativism is wrong and moral absolutism is correct. Maybe I missed something?

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edit on 8/2/2016 by Dark Ghost because: (no reason given)

This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want tobelieve. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deepthe rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more. Morpheus. DISRAELI

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 16:34 link quote reply a reply to: Dark GhostIf we're talking about a God of the Biblical type, I'm not convinced that "unable to interfere" is appropriate.Better would be "willing to tolerate in the short-term".

That makes a better fit for what the Bible describes, which is indirect interference in the short-term, combined with promises of more decisive interference inthe long-term.

Of course this would produce reactions of "That doesn't match with our definition of a loving God".To which I could only reply that such a God might be operating on his own definition of what he ought to be like, and not on ours.

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originally posted by: Krazysh0tBut that's the thing. Nothing I said disproves a god could exist. A deity couldwell exist; it just doesn't have much concern for things like good and evil since it knows the actions a human performs while on earth regardless of their scopeare rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

That is a fair enough point. I think I better understand now from where you arearguing.

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Though, it does beg the question: why then were we created if not for some purpose?edit on 8/2/2016 by Dark Ghost because: (no reason given)

This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want tobelieve. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deepthe rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more. Morpheus. Krazysh0tSkepticalmember



Yes, part of the problem with human theology is that humans tend to think we aremore important in the universe than we really are. Over 99% of the universe will kill us and we've existed within far less than 1% of the total timespan of theuniverse. Even among geocentric timespans here on earth, we are still pretty insignificant. The dinosaurs have us beat by a LONG shot, for one. Heck, we aren'teven the most populous species on the planet. Ants got us beat there.

Thus, it is unlikely that human actions can be largely viewed as evil or good since we don't really amount to much. A deity would probably blink and several millennia will have passed here.edit on 8-2-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)


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Thank you for elaborating.

This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want tobelieve. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deepthe rabbit hole goes. Remember: all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more. Morpheus. AceWombat04

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 17:14 link quote reply I too am agnostic, and am skeptical of the existence or a deity of divine consciousness while still entertaining the possibility.

Moral relativism may indeed be true - and judging purely by our conceptualization of good and evil, it would seem to be. But this topic is sort of a thought experiment so, putting that aside, and assuming there were such a thing as objective good or evil in some sense that we simply lack insight into for whatever reason, the idea of a divine creator knowing and intentionally limiting itself whileknowing what the consequence of that would be, still carries an ethical quandaryfor me. If it consciously and voluntarily gave up its omniscience and foreknowledge for the sake of allowing emergent, unpredictable behavior, that means priorto that sacrificing of its power and perfect knowledge, it would have to have k

nown what the consequence would be, in exacting detail, even if after said sacrifice that knowledge is somehow limited or even erased. You mention it being irresponsible. I'd say so! "Horrible suffering and untold catastrophe could be wrought, but I'm bored knowing everything, so I'll do it anyway," does not sit well with me when conceiving of an ostensibly perfect, all knowing, all loving being.

So one thought I sometimes entertain is that such an entity, should it exist, simply doesn't need to be omnipotent and omniscient in the sense we typically imagine. Perhaps it is simply the very nature of whatever divine force may exist that it intrinsically has limits, always has, and always will, with respect to theways in which it can interact with and act upon this plane of existence or dimension if you will. Perhaps it is simply so vastly and incomprehensibly differentfrom our own nature and existence, that anytime it even attempts to act on this

reality, it manifests in ways we cannot begin to comprehend, much less see in real time playing out. Or perhaps its perception of time is so different from ourown, it conceptualizes of events and scenarios on such a grander, longer time scale than we do, the discreet events of a single lifetime - except as they relateto the larger whole of whatever span of time it seeks to affect - are literallyalmost unnoticed by it.

If the definition of a god as "a being which knows all, can do all, IS all, seesall, accurately predicts all, and also has perfect ethical and moral conduct" is incompatible with our own concepts of morality and the world we see around us,then I would posit that either our concepts of morality are in error, such a being does not exist, or, our definition of that being's nature is inaccurate. So,either morality is something we have contrived and if such a being exists its m

orality is of such a higher order relative to our own as to be unrecognizable tous, such a being simply doesn't exist, or such a being does exist but while itsmorality is somewhat analogous to our own, it is in some way intrinsically andby nature limited in its ability to affect direct, immediate change except undervery specific, very rare circumstances. And even then perhaps in ways we cannotdetect or comprehend.

It's also possible there was no moment of creation, and that this being and "something else" simply always existed - or that "everything else" (our observable universe and, presumably, other universes relative to our own) exists as a part o

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f it, and has also always existed, despite our own perception of time being linear and having a 'beginning' (perhaps this too is an example of how our own nature simply causes us to get it wrong, because we can't think outside that conceptual box and our particular dimensional manifold is four dimensional and has an arrow of time which moves in one direction as far as we can tell) - and so there is no morality implicit in our "creation" because everything always simply already "was," and this divine force has existed aside, or as part of, all that is foreternity, with our universe simply being the latest emergent property of that infinitely complex system... not intentionally 'created,' simply emerging as thenature of that whole is wont to cause to happen.

We like to imagine that if such an entity exists it must meet certain criteria.To which I say: says who? Us? Because our track record when it comes to cosmology has been stellar, right? (No pun intended.) :p

As stated I'm agnostic and skeptical, but I do entertain these sorts of thoughtexperiments.

Peace.

"Its a wonder I havent abandoned all my ideals they seem so absurd and impractical. Yet I cling to them because I still believe in spite of everything that people are truly good at heart." -Anne Frank"... just remember its not your country anymore so mind your manners." -anonenti

ty Raggedyman

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 17:28 link quote reply The theory is interesting but I would think God sacrificed His own sovereignty over humanity so we could experience a reality without Him, otherwise we would be nothing but computer programmers that can't operate independentlyWe must learn pain and suffering to experience the true value of freedom and peace, understand why we need a relationship with God and why we want that relationship.

Effectively God chose to suppress His own capabilities

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 17:42 link quote reply God created man and gave himfree will. He was instructed on how to behave. Now it is up to him. If man behaves in what we perceive as evil, he will be punished. If he behaves in what we perceive as kind and just, he will be rewarded. God created life, but does not micro-manage every minute detail of every beings existence. We are our own worst enemy sometimes. But hat is not God's fault. All he did was give us a choice.

If you are going to throw stones at people you need to be smart enough to pick stones that arent shaped like boomerangs.

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 18:01 link quote reply My thoughts, though I don'tknow if their is anything we would call a God, and I don't really care if thereis one or not.

If power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Wouldn't a God be absolutely corrupt?

Its too late now to stop the process. This was your choice you let it in butcherguyATS is so wonderful.Member

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 18:48 link quote reply If you wanted to play a gameand you are the only player, would it be fun if you made the dice roll the waythat you wanted each time?

Yay, I win!

Yay, I win!Yay... I win.Yay.....I... win.Okay, I am bored with this game.

Let's give the dice free will. That might make things interesting.

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KahunaMember

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Though, it does beg the question: why then were we created if not for some purpose?

We're here for the self gratification of our CREATOR, as many aspects of our CREATOR. Don't sweat the rest - everything is taken care of for you and it all works perfectly. IMHO.

Wake up !!..... You are being put to sleep by your cell phone. NateTheAnimator

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But what if there was a way where not everything could be predicted, and the actof creation could be productive and inspiring?

Then God's attribute of omniscience is false.

To use an analogy: a programmer that has released software without including a "

back-door" for that software.

As a programmer you can still interface with the program itself through conventional means and solve issues through that manner. Or are you implying in your analogy that the programmer is incapable of doing so similar to God? Also you can also access the source code using other software.

InhaleExhale

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For those unaware, the Problem of Evil can be broadly defined as follows: sincebad things such as pain, misery and suffering take place in our world, how can people believe in an all-powerful, all-knowledgeable and all-loving God?

Pain? a bad thing?

I have heard that child birth is one of the most painful experiences for some women but at the same the most joyful thing happens in their life from that pain.

as Kumiho points out

Right from wrong, evil from good is relative to whom you are asking

each has their own view or perception of whats good and evil.

Our Perceptions become our reality via the choices we make. SharonGlass

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I have thought this for a long time. But I guess it took someone such as you, to

put it so elloquently.

Thank you.

Seede

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For those unaware, the Problem of Evil can be broadly defined as follows: sincebad things such as pain, misery and suffering take place in our world, how can people believe in an all-powerful, all-knowledgeable and all-loving God? To elaborate: if God is all knowing, could he not foresee all bad things from taking place? If God is all powerful, could he not stop these bad things from happening? Finally, if he is neither willing nor powerful enough to prevent pain, misery andsuffering, why do we call him God? These arguments are not easily refuted and while I identify more as an agnostic than as an atheist or theist, I do still believe I have a theory that might explain the Problem of Evil whilst allowing forthe existence of God.

Apples and oranges is it not?Your trying to reason the terrestrial substances with celestial substances and it can't be done. That is if there is celestial substances. But in this theologyI assume that we assume there are the two existences. Perhaps even more. If not

then the discussion ends here. If so then you realize that this existence that we exist in at this time is not permanent nor has it ever been intended to be without the existence of corruption. In time it will become non existent and all therein will become non existent.

A creator can do as it wants and being the clay of a vessel the creation is butwhatever the creator wants or desires. That is the creators privilege. Could thecreator create in a different manner than what is shown today? Who can say? Isthe creation permitted in criticizing the creator? In this case yes, simply because it was included in the creation. Only permitted but not justified. Regardless of your dislikes of pain, suffering, death and inequality, all four are the result of self infliction. Not by the creator but by the creation.My opinions of course --

he standard answer to the problem of evil is, firstly, that evil is necessary for development. Consider the evolutionary concept of natural selection, based upon "survival of the fittest". The flip side of that is the non-survival of the organisms who are not at the pinnacle of 'fitness', a biological evil. Without this destructive engine of biological evil, there would be no change in populationtraits and therefore no evolution.

So, for the universe to develop, there must be evil. For us to make choices, theoptions that we may choose from; have to exist.

But philosophy and science can only go so far in the solution to the problem ofevil. At this stage, it would appear that evil is inevitable and permanent. Our

situation from the point of these intellectual disciplines is hopeless. The removal of evil also removes free will, development and change.

Religion then offers us an ultimate solution to evil as God has revealed that evil will be eradicated at some future point but that personality will be retained. As a step towards this future we have the example of Jesus Christ's power of atonement. His ability to absolve ourselves of past evils grants us the first step in beginning to extricate ourselves from the web of evil. The Holy Spirit maythen guide us in preventing our contribution to evil and our path to that perfected state.

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chr0nautGo`el (Avenger of Blood Kinsman Redeemer) Re-Member

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originally posted by: Krazysh0ta reply to: Dark Ghost

I'm pretty sure that moral relativism is true and there is no such thing as goodand evil.

Then why be moral at all? Surely amorality is a survival trait.




originally posted by: Krazysh0ta reply to: Dark Ghost

But that's the thing. Nothing I said disproves a god could exist. A deity couldwell exist; it just doesn't have much concern for things like good and evil since it knows the actions a human performs while on earth regardless of their scopeare rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Or because such a God knows that he will "right all wrongs", nullifying all evil

that has occurred.


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originally posted by: chr0naut

Then why be moral at all? Surely amorality is a survival trait.

Good question. I believe that morality arose from our pack like mentality sinceapes and their kin are social animals and tend to group up in social hierarchies. As we became more intelligent, we put conditions on things that made us identifiable among our pack. This was early morality. Slowly it arose to be a conceptto define social cohesion, which is more or less its function in this day and time.

Personally, I prefer social cohesion versus anarchy so I'm game for adopting relativistic morals to propagate better social cohesion. This being said, this alsomeans that I have to be willing to accept morals from other groups of humans th

at make better sense than the ones I'm currently using.edit on 8-2-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

I dont know what to put here at the moment. Krazysh0tSkepticalmember

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Or because such a God knows that he will "right all wrongs", nullifying all evilthat has occurred.

But in that case, you are arguing for a case where only good can exist. Since all evil is nullified, then how can we say anything is truly evil? Seems to be just a roundabout way of saying that everything is just shades of grey.

I dont know what to put here at the moment. missedinformation

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What if our "God" is not the "God" of the universe and everything else

but our "God" was created with those sacrifices you were talking about

and we the humans are talking about "God" if he/she/it has a face

but God is just some kind of a energy hehe




originally posted by: Krazysh0t

But in that case, you are arguing for a case where only good can exist. Since all evil is nullified, then how can we say anything is truly evil? Seems to be just a roundabout way of saying that everything is just shades of grey.

I don't think one can say that only good can exist by taking the long view and averaging things out.

If I have my feet in ice-water and someone is holding my hands over a flame, I am not, on average, comfortable.

Prezbo369Kingslayer

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Or because such a God knows that he will "right all wrongs", nullifying all evilthat has occurred.

And in the meantime, just suck it up?......never mind those living a life of constant suffering, rape, torture and pain?

It's all worth it because the god will maybe one day punish the perpetrators (orforgive them) and everyone will live in heaven (as long as you fulfill it's list of conditions...)?

How is this moral?edit on 8-2-2016 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion however satisfying and reassuring.

-Carl Sagan Krazysh0tSkepticalmember

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 21:10 link quote reply a reply to: chr0naut

So you are saying that evil exists as microaggressions that get leveled out to good in the long run? I'm not sure I'm understanding your point clearly here.

Can you describe to me evil on a galactic or universal scale? How would humans perpetuate it?edit on 8-2-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

I dont know what to put here at the moment. AVoiceOfReason

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 21:42 link quote reply wait.. why is there a notionthat its gods job to prevent pain and suffering. heres a theory. the universe actually has a purpose. and that purpose isnt for everyone to live in a perfect place. its to learn.

Prezbo369KingslayerMember

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posted on Feb, 8 2016 @ 21:47 link quote reply a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

If I had the power to prevent pain and suffering I would, that's the difference

between me and your god and why I'm more moral than your god.

Whatever it's 'teaching' isn't worth the death and suffering of children or anyone else.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion however satisfying and reassuring.

-Carl Sagan chr0nautGo`el (Avenger of Blood Kinsman Redeemer) Re-Member



originally posted by: Prezbo369

And in the meantime, just suck it up?......never mind those living a life of constant suffering, rape, torture and pain?

It's all worth it because the god will maybe one day punish the perpetrators (orforgive them) and everyone will live in heaven (as long as you fulfill it's list of conditions...)?

How is this moral?

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[start sarcasm]

Surely pain is just a signal in a particular set of neurons, as is any sort of mental anguish. Isn't that the most accurate description under scientific empiricism?

Isn't pain necessary to motivate us away from self harming, where is the moral evil in that?

Isn't rape just the result of an uninhibited procreational urge?

Isn't torture the action of one with mental illness? They need rehabilitation, not moral condemnation.

Surely you see the tremendous advantages of moral relativism and an empirical view?

[end sarcasm]

You seem to allocate a lot of blame to an entity that you deny exists.


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originally posted by: AVoiceOfReasonwait.. why is there a notion that its gods job to prevent pain and suffering. heres a theory. the universe actually has a purpose. and that purpose isnt for everyone to live in a perfect place. its to learn.

What does a 1 year old learn after being blown up and killed in an indiscriminate bombing?

I dont know what to put here at the moment. chr0nautGo`el (Avenger of Blood Kinsman Redeemer) Re-Member

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originally posted by: Krazysh0ta reply to: chr0naut

So you are saying that evil exists as microaggressions that get leveled out to good in the long run? I'm not sure I'm understanding your point clearly here.

Can you describe to me evil on a galactic or universal scale? How would humans perpetuate it?

God will specifically negate each and every instance of evil. This is differentthan having a set of accrued positive and negative balances. It is individual and specific.

Perhaps an allegory could demonstrate: When I was a child, I touched a hot ironand it hurt. My mother, immediately picked me up and ran cold water over my fingers (which weren't actually burnt) and showed her sympathy for me. It was an expression of love as much as a life lesson. I feel that the descriptions given ofGod "comforting" those who are hurting and "wiping away all tears, and there wil

l be no more dying or pain" as an expression of love. It isn't just some sort ofcosmic tally.

I have also used the term "evil" in a broader sense than just malign moral intent. Evil could be a circumstance, action or outcome (intended or not) that causesharm.

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