84 _Renton Police Department Public Records

7/28/2019 84 _Renton Police Department Public Records

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STATEMENT #2 OFOFFICER

COMPLAINT NUMBER: C0-12-08INTERVIEWER: Commander ClineLOCATION: Renton Police Department

DATE: August 8, 20120903

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My name is Commander Paul Cline ofthe Renton Police Department, theOffice of Professional Standards. I will be interviewing Officer- ate is August 8, 2012 and we are in the Office ofProfessional Standards at the Renton Police Department where theinterview will take place. - .. o beginning I do need to read youthe uh Accused Officer Admonit ion again.Okay.Today's date is August 8, 2012 ( clears his throat) at 0903 hours. Iam Commander Paul Cline interviewing Officerregarding a complaint of violation of Renton Police Department GeneralOrders 26.1.1.2b Unbecoming Conduct, 26.1.1.2g Fictitious Illness orInjury Report and 26.1.1.2.tt Truthfulness, which is alleged to haveoccurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours. Officerdo you understand that this conversation is being tape recorded?Yes.

And do I have your permission to do that?Yes.Do you wish to have a Guild representative present during this interview?Yes.And with that let the record reflect that Officer Pete Montemayor ispresent. And cou, Pete could you please uh acknowledge your presenceby stating your name.

MONTEMAYOR: Peter J. Montemayor.CLINE: Prior to this interview were you given the opportunity to read the original

complaint ofthis incident?Yes.

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Were you given an opportunity to consult with your representative priorto this interview?Yes ( clears his throat).Officer I wish to advise you being questioned as part of an officialinvestigation of the Renton Police Department. You will be askedquestions specifically directed and narrowly related to the performanceof your official duties for fitness, eh fitness for office. You are remindedthat sections 26.11nsubordination and Truthfulness of the Renton PoliceDepartment General Orders do apply in this matter and that you musttruthfully respond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinaryaction as outlined in General Orders number 26.1. You are entitled to allth e rights and privileges guaranteed by law and Constitution of theUnited States including th e right not to be compelled to incriminate( clears his throat) yourself. I further wish to advise you that ifyou refuse to testify, or answer questions relating to this performance ofyour official duties or fitness for duty, you will be subject to departmentalcharges which could result in your dismissal from the Renton PoliceDepartment. If you do answer neither your statements nor anyinformation or evidence which is gained by reason of such statement canbe used against you in any subsequent criminal proceeding. However,these statements may be used against you in relation to subsequentdepartmental charges. Do you understand those?Yes.

Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and sign this and ask that you sign them, Peteif you'd also sign it as a witness?

MONTEMAYOR: Okay. ( lears his throat)CLINE:

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Okay- we had a prior interview on this incident and as I explained toyou when you came in, this is basically a follow up. This is uh regardinginformation that I've received from other people that I need to clarifywith you know, okay?Okay.Can you please state your name and employment fo r the record? Renton Police1

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And do you still recall the incident that we're here to discuss thatoccurred on July 13, 2012?Yes.Uh fol lowing your reported injury at Defensive Tactics training, do yourecall having a phone conversation with Commander aboutyour injury?I'm sorry, following?Following your uh in jury that you got at Defensive Tactics training didCommander try and get a hold of you? I think you guys playedphone tag a little bit.1 nterjects) Yes.And did you ev, final ly have a phone conversation with him?Yes.Okay. And do you recall, did that phone call occur on or about July 19th atabout 12:30?I don't recall the day exactly but probably around there, yes.Okay. Uh do you recall what the phone call was about and can you tellme what it was and what was said?!, I don't remember the whole thing. I mean I thought he was justchecking up on me to see how I was doing.Okay. Do you remember uh Commande r asking you whathappened to your hand?Specifically uh no. I mean I'm sure he checked and asked. I don'tremember him specifically asking but (Cline interjects with "Okay") I'msure he did.Do you know what, if anything, you told him had happened?

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I told him that I hurt it at training I'm sure. I, I, I, I don't rememberexactly the conversation on the phone but I'm pretty sure I told him that Ihurt it at training.Do you remember telling him that your hand was injured in a trainingaccident in Defensive Tactics, would that be about right?Yes.

Okay. Did you tel l Commander thatyour thumb got trapped inthe gun belt of Officer- during the Defensive Tactics trainingscenario and that had, that had caused the injury to your wrist and yourthumb?No, I don't remember saying to the wrist bu t to the thumb, yeah.Okay. So the thumb no t the wrist.I don't recall saying anything about the wrist.Was your, was your wrist reinjured during that though?Not that, not to my recollection, no I mean I, I had a, a condition twelveyears ago that ( clears his throat) I had surgery for but it didn'treinjure the, the wrist.

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And you did tell Commander ha t you'd had surgery on yourright wrist in the year 2000?Yes.Okay. Now I, I think I just asked this but just for clarification, did you evertell Commander that you reinjured your wrist in thetraining accident but that the injury to your thumb was a new injury?Mmm I don't recall ever),{saying anything about reinjuring the wrist.'YuOkay but that the thumb was a new injury?

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Did you, did you mention to him that you had hurt your thumb prior tothat in camping?I can't say for sure. I, I don't remember. I don't know either way if I didor if I didn't.Okay. Did you ever tell any supervisor, Officer In Charge, or even yourdoctor that you had injured your thumb prior to Defe, Defensive Tacticstraining?Told Defensive, I told Defensive Tactics instructors (Cline interjects with"Okay") before the training.And yeah, we talked about that in the prior interview. But did you ever asupervisor, or an OIC or even your doctor that you had injured your handprior to the Defensive Tactics training while you were camping?Or my doctor, or the doctor that saw me? I don't remember telling anOIC.

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I don't think I told an OIC.Sergeant?No, I don't think so.Okay. Did you ever uh report on (inaudible) any ofthe L&l forms or theCity of Renton uh Incident Report or the Renton Police Department InjuryReport, did you make any mention that your thumb had been injured .. nterjects) I don't believe so ....while camping prior. . nterjects) I don't .....to this incident?I don't believe so, no.



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Did you, did you mention to him t'that in camping?I can't say fo r sure. I, I dor>'or i f I didn't. ~Okay. Did you ever tell any suP'doctor that you had injured your th ..training?Told Defensive, I told Defensive Tactics i n s t r u c t ~"Okay") before the training.

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And yeah, we talked about that in the prior interview. But Jid you ever asupervisor, or an OIC or even your doctor that you had injured your handprior to the Defensive Tactics training while you were camping?Or my doctor, or the doctor that saw me? I don't remember telling anOIC.

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I don't think I told an OIC.Sergeant?No, I don't think so.Okay. Did you ever uh report on (inaudible) any of the L&l forms or theCity of Renton uh Incident Report or the Renton Police Department InjuryReport, did you make any mention that your thumb had been injured .. nterjects) I don't believe so ....while camping prior ..: nterjects) I don't .....to this incident?I don't believe so, no.

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Okay. You don't believe you did? Do you believe that should have beenincluded in those forms?In hindsight, yes.Do you think it was wrong not to mention that to the supervisor who wasfilling out the form that your hand was injured prior to the DefensiveTactics training?I want to be careful how I answer that. l.Jm, obviously I probably shouldhave. I, I didn 't leave it out intentionally. So to say if it was wrong not totell them um ...well if the intent was to not tell them then it would'vebeen wrong, yes. But the intent was not to withhold the information, soum, mistake yes.But again, do you think it would have been important to tell them that sothat they would have that information?In hindsight, yes.Alright. Can you think of any reason why if, if you did not say the injuryto your thumb was a new injury uh that Commander would saythat you told him that it was a new injury and that you were fine prior toDefensive Tactics training?Can you say that again?Can you think of aoyreason why Commander would saythatafter the con, phone conversation he had with you, can you think of anyreason why he would say that you told him that your thumb was a newinjury and that it had been fine before the training?No Ican't see why, I can 't see why he would put that down if I didn't tellhim that it was new and that my thumb was fine, no I can' t think of areason.Okay and are you saying you did not tell him that?I'm not saying that . I'm saying that I don't remember what I said.

CLINE: Okay.

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STATEO F F I C E R ~

Okay. You don't believeincluded in those forms?In hindsight, yes.Do you think it was wrorfilling out the form t h a t ~Tactics training?I want to be careful how

een

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IUidhave. I, I didn't leave it out intentionally. So to say i f t was wrong not totell them um ..well i f the intent was to not tell them then it would'vebeen wrong, yes. But the intent was not to withhold the information, sourn, mistake yes.But again, do you think it would have been important to tell them that sothat they would have that information?In hindsight, yes.Alright. Can you think of any reason why if, if you did not say the injuryto your thumb was a new injury uh that Commander would saythat you told him that it was a new injury and that you were fine prior toDefensive Tactics training?Can you say that again?Can you think of any reason why Ccafter the con, phone conversation Ireason why he would say that you 1injury and that it had been fine bef1No I can't see why, I can't see why Ihim that it ; : ~ s new and that mythreason.Okay and are you saying you did no eI'm not saying that . I'm saying that I don't remember what I said.

CLINE: Okay.

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But I can't think of another reason why he would say that (Cline interjectswith "Okay") unless that's what was said.Okay. I think that's probably alii have to ask you right now,- Isthere anything else you'd like to tell me about this incident, regardingwhat we've just talked about here?

Mmm can I have a minute to confer with my uh {Cline interjects with"Sure") representative before ..{Cline interjects) We can, we can go off th e tape if you'd, it is uh 9:14hours and we're going.to be pausing th e recording. Okay we're gonna beback on recording and th e time in 9:23. Uh- left uh I'd askedif there was anything else you'd like to tell me about this and you'd hadan opportunity to speak with your Guild representative now is thatcorrect?

Correct.Okay, go ahead.I have nothing further to add.

Okay. I did have uh one or two quick other questions. Urn, I was gonnatell you that Commander did actually write th e memorandumthat we were talking about and that he did say that you told him um thatyour thumb was a new injury and that your thumb was fine prior to that.Urn and I just want to clarify that you said you don't recall ever saying.that?

I don't recall a majority of the conversation. I don't recall saying tliat andI don't recall anything about th e wrist coming up {Cline interjects with110kay'') aside from th e fact that the wrist was a preexisting conditionthat there's a loss of range of motion that also causes loss of range ofmotion in th e thumb.

CLINE: Okay.That's ..

CLINE: . t . - ~ t: tA5(Cline interjects) You, you don't recall that, that CQ.I:I.\LGfS, those thingsthat I just said though being said?



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But I can't think of another reason why he would say that (Cline interjectswith "Okay") unless that's what was said.Okay. I think that':there anything elsEwhat we've just talMmm can I have a"Sure") representa(Cline interjects) VIhours and we're g(back on recording Iif there was anythian opportunity to correct?Correct.Okay, go ahI have nothi

Okay. I d i d ~tell you thai \(\9that we weryour thumbUm and l jwthat?

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Jm, I was gonnae memorandumtold him um thatfine prior to that.311 ever saying

I don't recall a majority of the conversation. I don't recall saying tliat andI don't recall anything about the wrist coming up (Cline interjects with"Okay") aside from the fact that the wrist was a preexisting conditionthat there's a loss of range of motion that also causes loss of range ofmotion in the thumb.

CLINE: Okay.That's ..

CLINE: ~ o u c ; p S(Cline interjects) You, you don't recall that,that ~ , those thingsthat I just said though being said?

{MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla in ts /C0-12-08 8


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I don't.Okay. Do you think they possibly could have been said or that you don'trecall them or were they, do you think they just weren't said?I mean if he wrote 'em, I mean I don't think the Commander's gonna lie.But I don't remember them being said.Okay. One last question um if someone is claiming an injury thatoccurred on duty and they had just very recently had a prior injury to thesame place do you think that it would be paramount that they notify thesupervisor of the prior injury and when they filled out the L&l forms andthe City forms that they had made mention of that?Generically speaking, yes.What do you mean generically speaking?You're, you're speaking in generalities if somebody has a prior injury andthen they go to training and they injure that same member uh then yes it,1,1, I, I understand where you're going with this, yes. But with thisparticular case the, the nature of the in jury I sustained prior to trainingwas uh I was able to utilize my thumb in, in a work capacity. It didn't holdme up from work. Urn, when I got injured at training I could no longerfunct ion in my duties. I couldn't manipulate my holster. So the injuryfrom training, I don't want to say it was different injury because obviouslyit happened to the same area, but was a worse injury i f you will becauseit kept me from work. And I understand that the questioning as far asshould it have been divulged, 1 should have yeah. In hindsight, yes Ishould have.Okay. I think that 's all the questions I have. Um that will conclude theinterview and the time is now 9:26a.m.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints /CO-iZ-08 9


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C0-12-08

Interview Questions #2Interviewer: Commander Paul ClineOfficer: OfficerDate: August 8, 2012 Time:______Location: Renton PD OPSInterview is being recorded. Please give clear, verbal answers.Read, "Accused Officer Admonition".

Please state your name and employment.Do you still recall the incident we are here to discuss that occurred on July 13, 2012?Following your reported injury at defensive tactics training do you recall having a phone

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conversation with Commander about your injury?Did that phone call occur on July 19th at approximately 1230 hours?Do you recall what the phone call was about and can you tell me what was said?Do you rememberWhat did you tell him?

asking you what happened to your hand?Did you tell him that your hand was injured in a "training accident" at DT?Did you tell that your thumb got trapped in the gun belt of O f fi c e r - duringthe defensive tactics training scenarios and that that had caused injury to your wrist and

'\_ thumb?\ \; 10. Did you tell that you had surgery on your right wrist in 2000?'v 11. Did you tell him that you re-in ured your wrist in the training accident but that the injury to\ your thumb was a new injury?\,. t 12. Did Commander ask you if your thumb was fine before the training?. V 13. Did you answer "yes" to that question?~ 14. Why would you tell commander that the injury to your thumb was a new injury

when in fact you had injured it camping a day or so earlier?V 15. Didn't you tell-- and that you had injured your thumb prior to""-. defensive tactics training?\1 16. Then why would you tell Commande r that the injury to your thumb was new when .

he asked you if the injury sustained in the training hurt your wrist in addition to your' thumb? Refer to memorandum fromY 17. Did you tel l any supervisor, OIC or even your doctor that you had injured your thumb prior

to the defensive tactics training?


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' . 18. Is it reported by you in any of th e police department, city or L&l forms that you injured yourthumb prior to the trainingwhen you fell while camping?

19. Should that have been included in the forms?20. If not, why not?21. Do you think that was wrong? Do you think that was something you should have done?22. If you did not say the injury to your thumb was a new injury then why do you think

Commande r : : : : would say you did say those things?23. Commander wa s very certain of what he asked you and your answers to those

quest ions, why do you think he would be wrong?

24. Is there anything else you would like to tell me about this incident and your involvementprior to my ending this interview?

If answer is that the wrist was a prior injury and was re-in ured but thoughtmeant was the thumb part of the wrist injury then why did you say that your thumb was finebefore th e training when it was injured and swollen?

Date and time interview was concluded .


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RENTON POLICE DEPARTMENTINTERNAL AFFAIRS

WITNESS OFFICER ADMONITIONC0-12-08COMPLAINT NUMBER

Today's date is August 1, 2012 at 1310 hours. I am Commander Paul Clineinterviewing Commander

GO 26.1.1.11.B Unbecoming ConductGO 26.1.1.11. G Fictitious illness or Injury ReportsGO 26.1.1.1l.TT Truthfulnesswhich is alleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours.Commander- do you understand that this conversation is being tape recorded?(Answer)Commander- you are here as a witness in the above listed complaint, a matterwhich concerns another officer. A complaint has not been filed against you, and you arenot under investigation in this matter.Commander- I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as a part ofan official investigation of the Renton Police Department.You are reminded that section 26.1 "Insubordination" and "Truthfulness" of the RentonPolice Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfullyrespond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary a 1 n as outlined in generalOrder No. 26.1

EMPLOYEE ASSIGNED INVESTIGATOR


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POLICE DEPARTMENT

M E M 0 R A N D U MDATE: July 23, 2012TO: Commander P. ClineFROM:SUBJECT: Defensive Tactics Injury Report

Commander Cline,The purpose of this memorandum is to inform you of my involvement andunderstanding of an incident involving a Police Department member claiming they wereinjured while attending Department training. This Department member allegedly madethe statement they were going to claim th e injury happened at training that had not ye ttaken place.On Saturday, July 14th at 0949 O f f i c e r - ~ e n t me an e-mail (attached) statingOfficer C. had injured his thumb th e day before {Friday July 13th) at defensivetactics (DT) training. She stated he had come to work that morning and was unable todraw his weapon so he left to "seek medical treatment". She then advised sh e had filledout the required paperwork and left it on Melissa Day's desk.That same day at 1635 Officer ent another e-mail (attached) stating Officer ad texted her stating his thumb had been strained and was advised to see adoctor later in th e week.On Tuesday July 17th at approximately 1500 I called and left a message for Officer sking about his status and probable return to work date on his cell phone.On Wednesday, July 18th at 1006 I sent an e-mail (attached) to Officer sking ifsh e could get a hold of Officer and find ou t a possible prognosis and how hewas doing.At approximately 1330 that same day, Commander Wilcox invited me into his office tolisten to a phone message. The message was from Sergeant Sergeant .stated she had lunch with Officer and had told her Officerwas injured while attending DT last week. Officer then told her that she spokewith Officer just before the DT training and that Officer told her that hewas going to claim an injury to his thumb happened at the training. Sergeant stated she thought Officer actions were untruthful and unprofessional.


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At 1753 Of f i c e r - h ad responded to my earlier e-mail request (attached) statingOfficer was still out injured and was not going to be able to see his doctor untilJuly 23rd.At 1823 I received a voice mail on my desk phone from O f f i c e r for the late call as one of his children had turned down his phone. He did not commenton the injury but s tated I could reach him on his cell or home phone.

. On July 19that 1230 f returned Officer . phone call. I asked him what hadhappened tohis hand: I:Jesaid ''it wasa training accident" ~ d des"cribed d ~ l n g weaponretention in DTand having his thumb r a p p ~ d in the gun belt of f f i ~ e r . Officer-had pun and twisted his thumb causing n j u ~ to his thumb and wrist Officer . hen stated he had surgery on his wrist before this happened. I asked when hislast surge.ry was and hereplied "2000". I asked him if the injury hurt his wrist in additionto his th"umb. He said the incic:Jent qid re.-inju.ry wrist but i s t h u ~ b was a new injury.I asked him if his thumb was fine before training and he said "yes". .At 1235 I reported my conversation to Chief Milosevich and Commander Cline. At thistime I have not heard any updates regarding the incident.

Commander- Date


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COMMANDER

COMPLAINT NUMBER: C0-12-08INTERVIEWER: Commander ClineLOCATION: Renton Police Department


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Alright today's date is Aug, is August 1, 2012 at 1310 hours. Uh I amCommander Paul Cline interviewing Commander regarding acomplaint of General Orders 26.1.1.2b Unbecoming Conduct, GeneralOrders 26.1.1.2g Fictitious Illness or Injury Reports and GO 26.1.1.2ttTruthfulness, which is alleged to have occurred on August, I'm sorry onJuly 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours. Commander do youunderstand that this conversation is being tape recorded?Yes, Sir.And do I have your permission to tape?Yes, Sir.Commander you are here as a witness in the above listedcomplaint, a matter which concerns another officer. A complaint has notbeen filed against you and you are not under investigation in this matter.Commander I wish to advise you that you are being questionedas part of an official investigation of the Renton Police Department. Youare reminded that section 26.11nsubordination and Truthfulness of theRenton Police Department General Orders do apply in this matter andthat you must truthfully respond. Any refusal to respond may result indisciplinary action as outlined in General Order 26.1. Do you understandthat?Yes, Sir.It's basically the Witness Officer Admonition. And the incident that we'rehere to discuss is a uh reported on duty n j u ~ y to O f fi c e r - h which is, was alleged to have occurred on July 13,2012. Are you fami liar with that incident?Yes, Sir.Can you tell me how you first became aware of the injury and what hadhappened and who, who contacted you?Yes, Sir. Initially uh I was advised via an email from the Officer In Chargeuh. . on Saturday the 14th. She had sent me an email



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STATEMENT OFCOMMANDER

indicating she'd filled out some paperwork for Officer who hadinjured his thumb during DT the day prior, th e 13th_Now when you say DT do you mean Defensive Tactics Training?Yes, Sir Defensive Tactics. So she had sent me the email on that Saturdayfor the injury occurring that Friday. Um, and that was how I becameaware of the, the injury.What did you do after you became aware of the injury?Um when I came into work I just noticed the paperwork she had on mydesk. I went to uh Melissa Day to make sure everything was in order asfar as the uh medical packet being turned in and um all the paperworkbeing taken care of.Now when you looked at that paper was there any indication on any ofthe paperwork that the injury was uh occurred off duty and not on duty?No.Do you recall what the uh paperwork indicated was the cause oftheinjury?I just, I don' t remember the exact wording on the paperwork other thanreviewing it, seeing that it was on Melissa's desk and that she had itthere.Okay. Uh and it was indicated as being an on duty injury, interjects with "Yes") is that correct?Yes (Cline clears his throatL yes it is.Did you have any further contact with anybody about this?Uh not at that time.Was there anything elsethat brought your attention to this incident andcau, caused you to inquire further?Yes, uh I had received uh another email um I think it was uh fromthat sai, she had told him to go see a doctor that same day but when 1came back to work I hadn't heard anything Monday which would have

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been the 16th so uh on Tuesday I had called Officer to see if hehad everything, if he was taken care of uh cuz th e last mess I, message Igot fromthat day was that he was seeing a doctor and I had notheard anything back. So I checked and left a message saying I waswondering how he was doing, if he was going to have a probable returnto work date and check on his status. So, um I didn't get any responsethat day. Uh, !left th e message that afternoon. Uh when I came in thenext day I sent an email t hoping that I had a message from

~ o t , so I sent an email that morning onWednesday th e 181h to asking if she can ge t a hold of uh Officer me know how his thumb was doing and what he wasdoing. But uh later that day, same day on July 18th, uh CommanderWilcox had told me that he had a message he wanted me to listen to. SoI went to his office and it was a message left from Sergeantindicating one of her employees had spoken with - t heinjury and he had indicated that he was going to claim the injury occurredduring D, Defensive Tactics training. Um, it said in th e message, I don'tremember exactly what it said other than she had commented on histhumb and he knew or she knew that there's something wrong with itand he made th e comment that he was going to claim that it was injuredat Defensive Tactics training uh that was later, that was gonna happenlater that day.

Now when you sa y he you're talking about Officer heofficer, OfficerYes, Sir.Okay and so - then made notification and it went up toCommander Wilcox indicating that he had made a comment to ith at sh, that Officer was gonna report this injuryto his thumb as occurring during DTtraining, which was scheduled afterhe spoke to her?

Correct.Okay. Uh did that create a uh, any suspicion or question in your mindabout th e validity ofthis incident?Absolutely. Um , that came out as maybe he was being untruthful inindicating he had an injury before and was gonna claim it so that he couldtake time off was the immediate thought.



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Now did you have any phone conversation with O f f i c e r uhfollowing this inci, this uh contact with Commander Wilcox?I did. Shortly after becoming aware of th e uh th e allegation uh th einformation that Commander Wilcox provided to me, I finally got anemail from Officer aying that uh Officer was still ou tinjured and he was not going to be able to see his doctor until later in th eweek. And just after that, maybe a half hour, I stepped out of my officethere was a message where Officer left a message saying that uhhe, he apologized he didn't get th e phone call, one of his children hadturned down the phone so he was unable to uh be reached. He, bu t hedidn't mention anything about the injury us as far as when he would beback or anything like that.

CLINE: Did you ever have actual contact on th e phone or in person with Officer egarding this?- Yes, Sir. The next day when I came into work um at about noon, 12:30 I

uh returned his phone call and asked him what had happened to hishand. He had indicated that it was a training accident.

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Did he use those specific words? ( nterjects with "He used")That it was a training accident?It was a training accident were his specific words. He said that he was atDefensive Tactics, he got his thumb caught between th e holster and thebelt of Officer- twisted, they were doing weapon retention and hehad injured his thumb and wrist. And so I had asked about his wrist,about his wrist being injured, and he said yeah he's had a lot of surgerieson the wrist and I said what, when was th e last one? He said 2000. Andthen I asked him ifthe thumb was new. He ...(Cline interjects) Now wa, was he indicating th e year 2000 and that wasth e final uh surgery that he'd had so that'd be twelve years ago?Correct.

CLINE: Okay.- So he said that the, he had re-aggravated his wrist and that it, and that it

injured his thumb. And Iasked him if his thumb was new, he said yes. Isaid ..

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-------------------------------- - - -STATEMENT OF-

COMMANDER

CLINE: (Cline interjects) Now when you say i f his thumb was new you mean if theinjury to his thumb was new?

- interjects) If the injury to his thumb was new, yes.CLINE: Okay.- And I said you didn't have that before training, he said no.CLINE: So you specifically asked him if the thumb injury was a new injury ..

CLINE:

CLINE:

nterjects) Yes ....that he incurred in Defensive Tactics and he told you that yes it was anew injury and that he had received it in Defensive Tactics?Correct.No doubt in your mind about that?No doubt in my mind.

CLINE: Okay.But he also had added that it'd reinjured his wrist.

CLINE: Okay. Was there anything else that uh you discussed with him?- No. That, that, that was it. I asked, after that I wanted to make sure that

his paperwork, I told him to stay close with HR to make sure hispaperwork was taken care of and Melissa so that and you know when hecomes back to work he's, he's needs to have uh a release either to lightduty or to full duty or, or whatever.

CLINE: Now after that conversation with him did you complete a memorandumuh regarding your conversation with him?- I did. I completed the memorandum and submitted it.CLINE: And I have the memorandum sit ting here. Is this the memorandum that

you com, completed and, and uh actually later on gave to me?Yes.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08: 5


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CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

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And is, is this memorandum a correct and accurate recollection of theconversation that you had with OfficerYes.

Alright. Were you ever able to view the paperwork uh completedregarding the injury to Officer uh specifically the Supervisor'sReport of Injury and th e City of Renton Incident Report form, and Ibelieve there was also a Labor and Industries uh SIF form?Yeah that, the, and I don't know the proper terminology, there's a packetthat supervisors use which has th e L&l form (Cline interjects with 11Mmmhmm") and all of that which was turned into Melissa, and Officer-did that. I had a copy of th e Supervisor's Incident Report that completed, saying that he injured his thumb at Defensive Tactics.Was there any mention in that report that he had injured his hand justprior to that, or his thumb, just prior to that uh away fr, in an off dutycapacity or at a camping trip or anything like that?No, Sir.

Were you ever told, by him or anyone else, that he had just injured hishand prior to th e day before uh DT uh and had injured his thumb?No, Sir.So the only information you had, and the only information that heindicated in the City's report forms was that he injured his thumb during

D e f ~ n s i v e Tactics training on July 13th?Correct.

Did you ever have a chance to see the uh Labor and Industries uh injuryreport form that's filled out by uh, uh medical personnel?I did not. I know that Melissa had it. I'd, I'd seen it but not close enoughto review it or se e exactly what was on it.Okay. The form that you did se e (uh was that signed by Officer

interjects with 11Mmm hmm")and by Officer



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CLINE:

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CLINE:

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The Supervisor's Incident Form was signed by Of f i c e r - a n d I can'ttell you for sure if it was signed by him. I know there's a signature blockthat I would have (loud background noise, possibly chair sliding back)remembered if he hadn't.Okay let me, le, pause just for a second here ( nterjects with"Okay") and I'm gonna ge t a copy of that.Okay. !, if, if it hadn't been signed I, I based on my, my hist-ory I would'veheld on to it and made sure it was signed before it was submitted up.Okay, if I was to show you this Supervisor's Report of Employee Injury it is(-interjects with "Yes") filled out by Of f i c e r - a n d th e off,injured officer is Of f i c e r - Uh, if I were to show you that andhave you look at th e bottom ( interjects with "Yep") do yourecognize th e signatures at th e bottom of that page?Yes.And is Officerlone of those signatures?It is.

Alright.And that is the exact same form because it's done on a, we have newerforms. This was done on an old form which caught my attention, so.Okay. And in that form uh_l believe it says the accident was duringtraining, no carelessness or questionable behavior. was properlyattired with equipment and in good working order. Uh training occurredin safe conditions uh indicating as I said at the beginning that theaccident occurred during training, is that correct?

Yes.Alright. Is there anything else about this uh incident that you can recall?Have you had any conversation with uh other people regarding it, uhregarding his injury or the fact that he never reported to a supervisor oryou or medical personnel uh that his thumb had been injured just prior tothis in a camping accident?No.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08 . 7


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CLINE:

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And to your knowledge since then has he made any mention of that toyou?I have, no he has not.Alright. That's gonna conclude this interview. Uh th e time is 1:18 p.m.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08:. 8


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WITNESS OFFICERADMONITIONC0-12-08COMPLAINT NUMBER

Today's date is August 2, 2012 at I 0 0 0 hours. I amCommander Paul Cline interviewing Officer. . . egarding a complaint ofGO 26.1.1.1l.B Unbecoming ConductGO 26.1.1.1l.G Fictitious Illness or Injury ReportsGO 26 1.1.11. TT Truthfulnesswhich is alleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours.Of f i c e r - do you understand that this conversation is being tape recorded? (Answer) 1.LOOf f i c e r - you are here as a witness in the above listed complaint, a matter whichconcerns another officer. A complaint has not been filed against you, and you are notunder investigation in this matter.Of f i c e r - I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as a part of an officialinvestigation of he Renton Police Department.You are reminded that section 26.1 "Insubordination" and "Truthfulness" of the RentonPolice Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfullyrespond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in generalOrder No. 26.1

ASSIGNED INVESTIGATORI ~


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------------------------STATEMENT OF

OFFICERCOMPLAINT NUMBER: C0-12-08INTERVIEWER: Commander ClineLOCATION: Renton Police Department


CLINE:

-LINE:-LINE:-LINE:-LINE:-LINE:

Okay today's date is August 2, 2012. The time is 1000 hours. I amCommander Paul Cline interviewing Officer regardingcomplaint of General Orders 26.1.1.2b Unbecoming Conduct, 26.1.1.2gFictitious Illness or Injury Reports and 26.1.1.2.tt Truthfulness, which isalleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours.Of f i c e r - do you understand this conversation is being tape recorded?Yes.And do I have your permission to tape record it?Yes.O f fi c e r - you are here as a witness in the above listed complaint, amatter which concerns another officer. A complaint has not been filedagainst you and you are not under investigation at this time. Of f i c e r I wish to advise you that you are being questioned as part of an officialinvestigation of the Renton Police Department. You are reminded thatsection 26.11nsubordination and Truthfulness of the Renton PoliceDepartment General Orders do apply in this matter and that you musttruthfully respond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinaryaction as outlined in General Orders 26.1. Do you understand that?Yes.Okay. This is basically Witness Officer Admonition. And I'm gonna goahead and sign i t and date it and I'm gonna ask you to do the saine.Okay.-I anna bring your attention to a, an incident that occurred on July13, 2012 at about uh 4:00 in the afternoon. Uh were you working thatday?Yes.And what was your capacity at that time?I was uh instructing DT.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Complaints/C0-12-08-- 1


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

And when you say DT you're talking about Defensive Tactics training?Yes.Uh and I'm gonna ask you at th e 1430 class, did Officer-attend that class?I, I believe so. I believe (Cline interjects with "And") that was, that wasthe time period.Okay and did uh - a l so ttend that same training?Yes.Okay. What was your position at that training?Uh, l was facilitating basically the lead facilitator, facilitator of the trainingthat day. And then um I also ran uh hood drills and participated in the,the uh weapon retention drills.Okay. Were you giving inst ruct ion then to th e pea, personnel who werethere?Yes.Were you also involved in checking those personnel for any kind ofweapons or injuries or anything like that prior to th e training?Yes.Did you do that?Yes.Uh did you have an uh opportunity at that time to speak with Officer

Urn, l be l i ev e - might have given the safety briefing because I wassetting the hood drill up.Okay___



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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Yes, sorry. So I believe he gave the safety briefing initially and I set thehood drill up. So, uh when I came back out from setting the hood drill!think he was just ending the safety briefing with about injuries and I knewthat um Officer had uh stitches in this triceps.Okay. Did he mention anything about having an injury to his rightthumb?Not 'til later on, 'til uh because after the first drill that we did as we werewalking back out to the front he had said that he tweaked his thumb.And I said "whoa" did you do it during the hood drill and he said no it'sjust, it's just hurt.Okay so he indicated that prior to the training he had tweaked histhumb?Right.Um, did he say that he was alright to be involved in the training and to dothe training?Yeah, cuz uh my first thing was okay so you're not gonna do drills or the,the takeaways and he said no !'II still do it and I was like alright fine.Did he tell you how he had injured his thumb?No. He just said I, I just kinda dismissed it when he said that he hurt it.And then later on I found out that him, hurt it over the weekend.Okay how did you find out later on that he hurt it over the weekend?Uh, it was after several conversations with, with different people but Idon't know if it was uh, I don't remember who exactly told me but whenthis investigation came up then I heard that he had hurt it.Okay so it was after the investigation came up you'd heard that he hurt iton the weekend?Right.Um did you have any conversation with O f f ic e r - that day? Of thetraining?



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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Um, regarding?Regarding the injury to OfficerNo.Um now during the training um did there come a point and time whereOfficer uh stopped and indicated that he had been injured in thetraining?Yes.

And can you tell me about that?Um several times I had told him not to lay off doing it because I didn'twant him to hurt his, his uh stitches.Okay and that was for his stitches and not fo r the thumb?Right.Okay.

And um you know the thumb was kind of an afterthought to me so I wasmore worried about the stitches. So, told him a couple times just to layoff. And then uh I had heard him say like ow or something like that, kindaloud. Well he was, he was saying ow a couple times and uh so I said just,just lay off. You, you don't have to do it. And then um he ..(Cline interjects) But, but he continued to do it?He's, he did it and then uh he let out one kinda louder ow and I went ov,over and looked at him and he said oh my thumb and I, is, is it the samethumb? And he said yeah and I said, I looked at it and I could tell he, hewas hurt. I mean his thumb was shaking. So, I mean having had thosekind of injuries before I, it looked hurt to me. So I said well I could tape itup fo r you. So I taped it up for him.Now when you say his thumb looked hurt, did it look swollen at all or?Um I, I, I didn't think it looked swollen. But I didn't pay attention to itbefore. It jus t looked like he had hurt it cuz it was shaking.



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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Does it seem kind of unusual that he would want to do the drills eventhough his thumb was hurt and he had stitches in his arm?Stitches, yes. Um for me like I have two hurt fingers right now and I, Iwouldn't have any problems like trying to do the drill so. The thumbthing I was like mmm. Uh that's, that's, that's fine with me but we havehad people like with shoulder injuries and stuff like that, that we reallydon't want them doing the drills. So the t ricep stitches was kind a like ahjust you shouldn't do it (Cline interjects with "Okay'') but he was like no1m fine. And I'm like okay.Alright. Um did you receive any information from Officer that hewas going to file an L&l claim for the injury with the City?You know he might have said it in passing but he just laugh, you know if Iget hurt I'll just claim it, but.Now you said he said if I get hurt I'll just claim it as rjects with"Yeah") an injury, and L&l ( - in te r jec ts with "Something like that")injury?He didn't specifically say L&l, he just said I'l l just claim it.

Okay.And I was like, "pft" well.Yeah, what was your response to that? Why, why would he say that?I mean, going back and looking at it in hindsight, i t's kinda like yeah whywould you, why would you say that? But in DT I guess we hear i t kind aoften that if I get hurt in DT I'll just claim it or I'll just you know job injury.Would it, would it seem to make more sense to you as a DefensiveTactics instructor that i f he had been injured that he would just si t thatout?Yes.Um did anyone else there do you know have contact with him about theinjury or uh see it after the injury occurred?Mmm ..



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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Any of the other DT instructors?I don't know if anybody else saw it because they were working with otherpeople.

Okay. Uh do you know if Officer-:::r- might have seen it or hadany conversation with uh Officer IUm I don't remember if he did. -was he lead instructor that day andhe was instructing everybody else. So while he was doing that I kindataped thumb up on the side.Okay. Did at any time during this uh Defensive Tactics t r a i n i ng mention about hurting his hand on a camping trip or that his thumb was,was uh had been injured on th e weekend? Or was it just, he just said itwas a little sore or what?He said it was hurt. But Ican't remember if he said how he hurt it beforeth e class or did I just hear it later on.Weill thought you said - i n t e r j e c t s with "I") that he, he said histhumb was fine and he'd be able to do the drills, that he,(- interjectswith "Yeah he said") he had injured it somehow during,(- interjectswith "Yeah, he hurt") during time before the class.Right, he said it was hurt but.(Cline interjects) So he did indicate that his thumb had been injured priorto the class?Yes, he, oh yeah it was hurt prior to th e class.Okay.It was, bu t to the extent of how hurt it was I don't, I don't know.Okay. And then apparently during th e class he claimed then that he hadfurther injured it?Right. And it looked like to me that, just, just from what Isaw from, fromhis hand shaking, I know I've jammed my thumb before, sprained it andstuff so I know that it's gonna, if it's gonna do that and shake I don't



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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

know if you can fake that but, I mean it's possible that he could have justaggravated it worse at that time. 1...Okay. Is there anything else, any more information you have about thisincident or? Did you, let me ask you another question though. Would,was there any mention made to you by anybody prior to, during or afterthis occurred about- uh injuring his thumb off duty and thenclaiming he was going to uh report it as occurring on duty?I, I didn't hear anything from anybody who said that they heard -saythat. I've heard people say that he's being investigated because he said,said, said it to somebody but (Cline interjects with "Okay") nobody's toldme that.Okay, so you have no personal knowledge of that?No.Okay.And I do know that him and his family went camping that weekend so.Okay. Alright is there anything else you can think of that occurred duringthat uh training that was, would stand out or be different uh?No, just the tricep thing got me. I mean that was like, personally Iprobably should have just said no you're not doing training cuz of the, thestitches.So as, as the DT instructor there you think you should have just told himno, you're not gonna do DT ( - in ter jec ts with "Right") because youhave an injury on your tricep with, with stitches and stuff?Yeah.Okay.It's, I, I mean I should have said that but I didn't.Okay. Alright uh that'll conclude this interview. The time is now 1010a.m.



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WITNESS OFFICER ADMONITIONC0-12-08COMPLAJNT NUMBER

Today's date is August 2, 2012 at___5_{..!___j('--'_ _ _ _ hours. I amCommander Paul Cline interviewing Officer.. regarding a complaintofGO 26.1.1.11.B Unbecoming ConductGO 26.1.1.11.G Fictitious Illness or Injury ReportsGO 26.1.1.1l.TT Truthfulnesswhich is alleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours.Officer- do you understand that this conversation is being tape recorded?(Answer) ' { J.LJOfficer- you are here as a witness in the above listed complaint, a matterwhich concerns another officer. A complaint has not been filed against you, and you arenot under investigation in this matter.Officer- I wish to advise you that you are being questioned a part of anofficial investigation of the Renton Police Department.You are reminded that section 26.1 "Insubordination" and "Truthfulness" of the RentonPolice Department General Orders do apply in this matter and that you must truthfullyrespond. Any refusal to respond may result in disciplinary action as outlined in generalOrder No. 26.1


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

COMPLAINT NUMBER: C0-12-08INTERVIEWER: Commander ClineLOCATION.: Renton Police Department


CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

Today's date is August 2, 2012 at 3:44p.m. or 1544 hours. I amCommander Paul Cline in terviewing Of f i ce r - regarding acomplaint of General Orders 26.1.1.2b Unbecoming Conduct, 26.1.1.2gFictitious Illness or Injury Reports and 26.1.1.2.tt Truthfulness, which isalleged to have occurred on July 13, 2012 at approximately 1600 hours.Officer do you understand that this conversation is beingtape recorded?Yes.And do I have your permission to do so?Yes.Officer you are here as a witness in the above listed matter, amatter which concerns another officer. A complaint has no t been filedagainst you and you are not under investigation in this matter. Officer ish to advise you that you are being questioned as part ofan official investigation of th e Renton Police Department . You arereminded that section 26.11nsubordination and Truthfulness of th eRenton Police Department General Orders do apply in this matter andthat you must truthfully respond. Any refusal to respond may result indisciplinary action as outlined in General Order number 26.1. Do youunderstand that?Yes.Basically that is the Witness Officer Admonition form. And this isreference Renton Police Department Internal Investigation Complaintnumber C0-12-08. The interview is being conducted at the Renton PoliceDepartment in the office of Commander Paul Cline. And- I just wantto go ahead and ask you questions that are uh related to this incident( interjects with ({Sure") and your knowledge uh or actionsinvolved in, in any of the incident. Can you please state your name and,and employment just fo r th e record?- Police Officer with the City of Renton.And are you awy, aware of wh y I'm interviewing you today,-

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Comp!aints/CO-lZ-08 - 1


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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Yes, Sir.Do you recall the incident we're here to discuss that occurred on July 13,2012 at approximately 1600 hours?Yes.Were you working on July 13, 2012 and if so, what was you r assignment?I was working and I was the DT instructor that day.Okay, is that Defensive Tactics instructor? nterjects) Defensive Tactics instructor that day.Okay. Uh did you inst ruct the Defensive Tactics training class at 1430hours on that date?Yes, Sir.And did O f f ic e r - and Officer ttend that sametraining you were instructing?Yes.Are you aware that Office claimed that he injured his right thumbduring the Defensive Tactics training he attended with you on July 13th?Yes.Do you know how Officer njured his right thumb during thetraining?By practicing one of the techniques.Do you have any personal knowledge of how he injured it?Uh no. I was instruct ing somebody else at the time.Okay. Did Officer or anyone else tell you that Officer1had injuries to his thumb prior to training on July 13th?

{MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla in ts /C0-12-08 - 2


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CLINE:

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STATEMENT OFOFF ICER -

Uh I, I had fore knowledge.And when you say that, what do you mean?I, when I came into work that day, I. saw him at the station and I knew he,him and some of the other officers went camping so I asked him how,how was the camping trip and he you know he told me it was great,family loved it. Urn, uh during the conversation he made a commentyeah he hurt his hand during the urn during camping and I was like oh.And uh I, I noticed he had a bruising on his arms. I was like that, you gotthat from camping and he, he was like no I got surgery. And I was like,what? I said what kinda surgery you got and think he removed a cyst orsomething from his arms. Urn so I didn't, I didn't know he had DT thatday when I initially spoke to him. And then uh at the end of ourconversation he's like alright I'll see you at DT and I was like okay.Did you notice any injury to his thumb at that time?No. I, I know he injured his hand.How, how do you know he injured his hand?He made a comment.Did he tell you how he had injured it?Well it was during that camping thing. The ..when he went camping.(Cline interjects) I mean did he say that I, that I fell or that I hi t it withsomething or do you recall that?Uh ... l'm not sure what exact activi ty he was doing when he hurt it. I don'tremember. I, I know he mentioned he hurt his hand or his thumb.Did, did he indicate that it was still painful or any, anything?Uh we didn't really elaborate on it I guess.So you didn't discuss it much, he just mentioned it and ( interjects with "Yeah") you, and you moved on?Yeah.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla ints/C0-12-08: - 3


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CLINE:

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Okay. Did you instruct the officers in the training to go slow during th escenarios?Yeah, I told them the potential hazards of the techniques, um be carefulcuz we do a Iotta techniques that can cause hyperextension of th e armsum, uh you know there's a, there's a lot of potential for injury so youknow I tell everybody during every DT session, uh I'm not sure if you, ifyou made it or not. But I advise everybody go slow. And it's, it's static.It's not you know we're not going a hundred percent. It's not a dynamicexercise. It's just very static, we're going through th e techniques youknow go through the motions. Some people do, you know regardlesshow I tell them you know go slow, go slow, there are some people thatdo you know craze out and do the technique hard.Do you know if um Of f i c e r - a nd Officer appeared to begoing slow or appeared to be just going through th e motions or did itlook like they were ( interjects with "Uh") doing too much?I, I wasn't paying too much attention to them. I, I was uh, what's um,Of f i c e r - was uh working with them and uh I had a different groupand I think it was Meg, Meg had a different group so. We each had likedifferent groups.Okay so you weren't directly ob s e r v i n g and -during( interjects with "No") this time?No.To your knowledge did Of f i c e r - speak to bout any injuriesprior to the uh Defensive Tactics training class?Uh not that I know of.And during this training was Officer artnerOfficer-What, I'm sorry, what?Were they partners,- and hrough th e entire training?I think so, yeah.Did Officer tell you or anyone else that you're aware of that heinjured his thumb prior to DT training on thir, July 13, 2012?

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MEUSSA:Complaints /C0-12-08 - 4


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-------------------------------STATEMENT OF

OFF ICER -

Prior to the training?CLINE: Yes.

CLINE:Not that I know of.Well you mentioned that he had told you that he had injured his handwhile he was camping.Uh huh.

CLINE: Okay.I'm sure {Cline interjects with "Other than that") the people who werecamping with him must have knew.

CLINE: Okay.

CLINE:I assume.Now during this time did he ever tell you that anyone else or anyone elsethat you know of that his thumb was injured off duty and that hereinjured it while doing Defensive Tactics scenarios with O f fi c e r After the incident occurred?

CLINE: Yes.

CLINE:

Did he tell me that he reinjured it? Okay, wait. I'm sorry, Sir, can youread it again?Sure. Did, after the Defensive Tactics training ( inter jects with"Uh huh") and then he injured himself ( interjects with "Mmmhmm") did he tell you or anybody else that you know of that he hadinjured his thumb prior and that this was simply reinjuring it from theprior injury? The one that he got camping? nterjects) I don't know about who else he told. Um when I

-was there I a ~ treating his hand {Cline interjects with "Okay") andhe mentioned it. He's like oh fuck I fucked up my thumb. Heard himsaying that so.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compla in ts /C0-12-08 - 5


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CLINE:


Okay, did he say that it, that it was reinjured from the prior camping tripor anything?No.

CLINE: No?

CLINE:

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CLINE:

No.Okay. DidOf f i ce r - have anything to say about injuring Officer humb during the training?I, I don't know. Not that I know of.You, you, did you talk to him?No.Okay. Do you have any evidence or opinion that would show Officer d id or did not injure his thumb during the DT training?No.Okay. Have you had any conversation with anyone or heard anyonesaying that Officer injured his thumb prior to DT training andplanned to report it as occurring at the training?Um, I mean after the incident and I heard about the internals going onthere's this rumor mill that happens here in the city and I heardsomething about it. I don't remember every, it, i t was, that's whateverybody was talking about I guess after, a f te r - came in I guess.don't know if it was right after that or, the rumor mill began.And the rumor mill was?That he was under investigation for um his leave.Okay. After Officer claimed that he had injured his thumb in theDefensive Tactics training class andOf f i c e r - uh apparently looked atit for him, what happened then?We continued through the class. Um.



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STATEMENT OFOFFICER

Did Officer-- continue with the scenarios?I don't think so.

interjects with "I don't know if ')

CLINE: Okay.I don't, I don't think so.

CLINE: And you said that Of f i c e r - uh taped Officer humb?Yeah. I remember him kinda stabilizing it.

CLINE: Are you aware of any reports that were filedou t regarding the injury? eports out?CLINE: Any injury reports that were made regarding his injury that he claimed

occurred during Defensive Tactics training? Do you have any knowledgeofthose?Oh like L&l?

CLINE: Yes.

CLINE:

CLINE:

Yeah. Uh he came into work the next day and just so happened I was inthe hallway talking to somebody and uh he was talking to-And he was telling- that he hurt his thumb and something about hedoesn't know if he can draw his gun and she told, I heard ..{Cline interjects) Did you overhear the conversation?Huh?Did you overhear that conversation?Yeah.

CLINE: Okay.And uh she told him well why don't you go upstairs and try to draw yourgun, see if you can. And then uh I guess he couldn't cuz he, he didn't, hedidn't dress up for work so.

(MD/H:PDADM!N:MEUSSA:Compla in ts /C0-12-08 - 7


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CLINE:

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CLINE:

CLINE:


Now you said you overheard the conversation. During that conversationdid you ever hear him tell Officer that he initially had injured histhumb camping in a fall and then that he reinjured it at Defensive Tacticstraining?I didn't hear that .Okay. Have you discussed this incident with anyone else prior to or afterOfficer said he injured his thumb?At DT?Yes. Have you discussed it with anyone else?Yeah. Well b o t h - and I after the in, after um the, the session, him andI talked. And it was like oh he, he hurt his thumb you know . - told mehe's like yeah he fucked up his thumb. And I told him I was like thatstupid ass. And I told him, I was like you know uh he said somethingabout him you know his, his hand being hurt. He shouldn't have done it.And both of him and I were like you know stupid ass for doing that.Sorry.

Do you, do you think maybe it would have been more appropriate whenhe said that he had injuries and, and stuff that to not allow, allow him toparticipate in the Defensive Tactics training?

. Uh you know, what is the percentage, what, quarter of our officers come .to DT with complaints that you know I have injuries I have this you know,

CLINE:

I have this oh, and you know we just tell them the same thing. Hey, youknow what I mean, you police yourselves. If you guys don't think you cando the techniques, don't. You know we want you guys to learn it and,and you know and, and practice it but if, if it's gonna hur t it more orinjure it, you know don't do it. We tell everybody the same thing. Prettymuch I, every session we say that.Now do you believe that the safety procedures were followed during thistraining scenario?Yeah.

(MD/H:PDADMIN:MELISSA:Compfaints/C0-12-08- - 8


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CLINE:

CLI.NE:

CLINE:

CLINE:


Okay. Is there any other information you have about this or any otherconversations you've had with anybody that uh might shed a little morelight on this?No, no t really.Now do you feel the motions that the, during th e training scenario um atth e slower speeds uh would cause reinjuring to his thumb? Or couldcause it?You could definitely cause it if somebody does the technique hard, ohyeah. I could definitely hurt somebody real easy.Okay, do you, now you said you didn't observe them doing it so you don'tknow if they were doing it hard or ifthey were doing it at, as you said at avery slow speed?Yeah. I, I don't know ..(Cline interjects ) So you don't know?I don't know. Um.

CLINE: Okay.But I mean like there's, there's some people I partner up with where Igo tyou know I got kicked in th e balls, I go t you know I go t palm heeled in theface. And I tell everybody th e same thing you know it's like hey go, it'sno t dynamic. Just go. You know but people get excited you know.People, they wanna do th e technique correctly and then you go t somepeople who grab the gun you know when we're, th e techniques cuzwe're doing weapon retention. They grab th e gun tight. So when you tryto practice the technique slowly like we tell 'em, you can't do it, it's no teffective because they're holding the damn gun tight and it's like oh Iguess that means you want me to go a little bit more dynamic, you know.You want me to bring th e percentage up. It, it happens all the time.

CLINE: Okay.You know, and so I, um. Other than that, I, I don't know, I don't know.



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CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:

CLINE:


So basically you really don't have an opinion either way as to whether ornot this injury did or didn't occur, you, you're just going by what Officer

ld you at this point and time.Yeah, I, I, I, I didn't examine it before, you know I, I don't, Idon't knowthe extent of it. You know.Okay. Alright well that'll conclude this interview and the time is ...It is 3:58.3:58 thank you.Yes, Sir.Alright.



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C0-12-08

Interview QuestionsInterviewer: Commander Paul ClineOfficer: OfficerDate: August 2, 2012 T i m e : . _ L / _ . ) : _ . . . . - - _ t { ~ ( ~ _Location:_Renton PD O.P.S.Interview is being recorded. Please give clear, verbal answers.Read, "Witness Officer-Admonition".

\. _ 1.\. 2."'3.

~ 4 .~ 5 .~ 6 ." " ' 7.

Please state your name and employment .Are you aware of why I am interviewing you?Do you recall the incident we are here to discuss that occurred on July 13, 2012 at approx.1600?Were you working on July 13, 2012 and if so what was your assignment?Did you instruct at Defensive Tactics training on July 13, 201 at 1430 hoursDid Officer... nd- attend that same training you were instructing?_Are you aware that Offices J ) claimed that he injured his right thumb during the DTtraining he attended with you on July 13th? Y..J-:7

""" 8. Do you know how Of f i ce r - i n ju r ed his right thumb during the training? Explain in \J \,detail please. ()0 I ~ T < - ~ 0 \ C ~ ~ _ ) ~ ' - ! \

..........._ 9. Did Office1 r anyone else tell you that (I l1ad injured his thumb prior to_ l*li- 1 );"'\"'-, 11. Did you instruct the officers in the training to go slow during th e scenarios? \ U > - ~ } \ J ~ \ ,.ni \ " A> v, ~....._ 12. Do you know if the other instructors gave similar instructions? \?' _. '-;:, 1 ~ ~

._ _ 13. To your knowledge did Officenpeak t about any injuries? ' ~ _.) ~ ~~ &._lyr''-1, u ) ; ~ { ~.. _ 14. Was p a r t n e r a t D T O f f i c e r ~ u W r . .../

..._ 15. Did you observe them during the scenarios? ~ ,), \ r \;.;\) .;/ l / ' ' -\;)

.. .,t-- u '- ~


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"-..,. 23. Did Officer $ tell you or anyone else that you are aware of that he injured his thumbprior to DTtraining on July 13, 2012?

'- - 24. Did you know he had injured his thumb while camping prior to the DT training?"-... 25. Did he ever tell you or anyone else that his thumb was injured off duty and that hereinjured it while doing DT scenarios with O f f i c e r ~

--....,. 26. Did O f f i c e ~ report that he injured humb during th e tr:aining?'-.,. 27. Do you have any evidence or opinion that would show did or did not injure his

thumb at DT training?"' - 28. Have you had any conversations with anyone or heard anyone saying that- njured

his thumb prior to DTtraining and planned to report it as occurring at the training?" 29. Did you have any further contact or conversation with , _ . o ~ a b o u t what

happened to thumb?'- . 30. After !aimed he i-njured his thumb what happened?"'-. 31. D i ~ t a p e . thumb? w--...,_ 32. Did continue with the scenarios? rjtJt)l" \\-\\\-1\f"'-......_, 33. Are you aware of any reports that were filed out regarding th e injury?'-.. 34. Have you discussed the incident with anyone else prior to or f t e ~ s a i d he injured

his thumb in DTtraining? ts ,-'i-.-- P i / ' - ~ T ~ t ~ ~ &_( r--t -"' - 35. Do you believe safety procedures were follo*ed in the training scenarios?"'-. 36. If claimed to be injured prior to the training scenarios do you feel he should have

been allowed to participate in them?"- 37. Is there anything else you would like to tell me about this incident and your involvement in

it prior to my ending this interview?Date and time interview was concluded.

Documents

84 _Renton Police Department Public Records